Savannah James & April McDaniel Are Keeping It Real

About six years ago, Savannah James and April McDaniel went from acquaintances to close friends, bonding over — among other things — a shared frustration with what they saw online. “So many of us in everyday life are fearful, and no one ever says that,” says McDaniel, 43, founder of the creative agency Crown + Conquer. “Social media makes it seem like, ‘Oh, I got it together. I’m a mom of three kids. I work full time. I go to the gym. I Christmas shop. I’m making dinner. My husband loves me.’ And I’m like, What the hell? It’s all great? That is not real.”

Professionally, McDaniel produces high-profile media campaigns and events, like Drake’s 30th birthday party and Rihanna’s Savage X Fenty runway show — and you might recognize her name from Adele’s latest album, 30, which is dedicated to her. But even in her world, “Everyone is like, ‘How am I getting by?’ I’m exhausted. We’re all just trying to figure it out. It would be great for people to be more vocal about that.”

Fortunately for the mom-of-two, she found a kindred spirit in James, who’s well-known for raising three kids alongside her husband, NBA all-star LeBron James.

Delighting in each other’s company and their shared passion for keeping it real, they started a podcast, Everybody’s Crazy, on which they take calls from advice-seekers. (Season 3 drops this week.) They’re also slow-launching Let It Break, a members-only women’s community offering self-growth education and expert support.

Their entries into wellness spaces started separately. After the death of her husband in 2013, McDaniel began exploring therapeutic practices — The Hoffman Process, Craniosacral massage, breathwork, and acupuncture, among others — to which she later introduced James.

“Before, I was just a mom. That’s where I felt my validity was,” says James, 38. “I put all my eggs in that basket without even trying to look outside of it. Once April and I started to have these conversations, I went, ‘Wow, there’s so much more I could learn about myself.’”

They intend to share these resources with a wider circle; Let It Break members will have access to exercise classes, expert-facilitated healing sessions, and travel experiences. (For example, the group has done a pole dancing class, examined their “human design,” and embarked on a psychedelics-aided “medicine journey.”)

Applicants to the relatively small collective — they currently have 100 members and hope to grow to 5,000 within five years — can be from any background: working women or stay-at-home parents, 20-somethings in search of mentorship, or empty nesters looking to reinvent themselves. The only requirement? That candidates have a desire to heal and help themselves. (There’s a $250-per-month fee, with an annual commitment.)

“We don’t want members coming here for me and Savannah,” says McDaniel. “We’re not here to fix people’s lives. We want someone who says, ‘I want to grow in community.’”

Below, James and McDaniel speak with Bustle over Zoom about learning to love themselves by leaning on each other.

How many times a day do you two text each other?

James: All day.

McDaniel: A million.

James: She used to scold me because I would call her, say, Monday at 1 o’clock and she’s like, “Girl! You know this is work hours?” I’m like, “I don’t care. What are you doing?”

How did your friendship inspire Let It Break?

McDaniel: Our relationship is fun and experimental and loving and kind and honest and transparent — all the things a friendship should be. I lost my husband 11 years ago, and I was kind of stuck emotionally. I started a self-discovery journey, asking, What’s the best version of myself? I started experimenting and would come home and call Savannah and be like, “Girl, guess what happened in therapy?” Then she ended up getting curious, and as she started to go through her journey, we said to each other, “We really need to give this to other people.”

How do you scale a group like this? Can you bring Let It Break to the masses, or will that dilute the essence of what you’re offering?

McDaniel: We’re not looking to mass grow. We’re not accepting 20,000 members or looking to raise $20 million. That’s not our vibe; we don’t want to lose the essence of us.

We knew doing this would require us to be vulnerable and honest. I was very hesitant about it initially, and Savannah continued to encourage me. I was like, “I don’t know about this.” And Savannah was like, “We got this!” And I’m like, “Do we?”

James: We still ask ourselves this daily.

McDaniel: I’m a Taurus, and I want to control everything. I often think having a friend who is a little bit more free [helps] you know it’s going to be OK, and at least somebody is going to hold your hand.

There’s something so powerful about women finding community, especially during a loneliness epidemic.

McDaniel: Yeah, and the calls we get on the podcast! People are so hard on themselves, even the youth. People 21 years old, 26 years old…

James: 14 years old.

McDaniel: We had a 16-year-old call us the other day. She was like, “I’m not doing enough. I’m not this. I’m not that.” And I’m like, “Girl. None of us are.”

Savannah, you met your husband when you were in high school in Akron, Ohio. Can you talk about how you’ve defined your own identity, apart from your marriage and family?

James: I’m still on that journey, but I’m learning I don’t have to be pigeonholed into this one basket of just being a mom. I applaud myself for being a mom. I’ve raised amazing human beings and that’s part of who I am. But I’m much more multifaceted. I’m also Savannah, and I’m also generous and curious and genuine. I love joy and I love to laugh. It’s been really nice to explore those different parts of myself.

What are some of the Let It Break classes that have resonated with you?

James: We were doing a workshop about your “Zone of Genius,” [examining] things that bring you joy and things that deplete you. The thing that came to me was my genuine disposition, [my ability] to come into any room always with optimism and positivity. That’s my Zone of Genius, and I was like, “That’s actually a pretty cool part of me!”

On your podcast, you ask callers, “What’s your name? Where are you from? And what’s your ‘crazy’?” So if you were each calling in, what would your “crazy” be?

McDaniel: For the last two weeks, everything has moved at a very fast speed and I couldn’t keep up. I wish I could push pause and stop time, just breathe for a second. When you move so quickly, you don’t even get to feel, because it’s like, Next thing. Boom, boom, boom. And then when you decompress, your system crashes. So that is crazy.

Sometimes when things are so busy or we’re in survival mode, we forget we have to actively plan for our futures.

McDaniel: Oh, I am constantly planning for the future. I have a 21-year-old and a 14-year-old, so being an empty nester is coming up, and emotionally, it’s an interesting space to be in. It tends to ignite a little bit of fear. [Unlike] Savannah, I don’t have a partner. That tends to be a bit daunting. Age is another interesting conversation, because for the first time, I’m like, “Damn. I feel old.”

James: You’re only as old as you feel, so stay young at heart and the rest will take care of itself. Or Botox.

Both. We’ll do both.

James: I’m a Botox virgin so I’ll let you all know how that is when I get there. I’m not opposed. I’m just not ready yet.

McDaniel: So Savannah, what’s your crazy?

James: My crazy is that I cannot believe I have a 20-year-old in the NBA. I still feel so young at heart. Every time Bronny comes here and has his little luggage, I’m like, “Where you goin?” It’s crazy! But I’m so happy for him; so happy to [be on the other side of] the journey that we’ve gotten through with him. Every time I see him, I’m just so happy. [Editor’s note: In July 2023, LeBron “Bronny” James Jr. went into cardiac arrest during practice. He’s since made a full recovery and was drafted by the LA Lakers. Last month, he and his dad made history as the first father-son duo to play in an NBA game together.]

How did you react to seeing your husband and son playing together in the NBA?

James: I didn’t get as emotional as I thought I would. When I saw them on the court on TV for the first time is when I cried. I was so anxious for the moment to happen. I felt all the anxiety in the arena, and I knew Bronny would be nervous. So the whole time, I was just like, “OK, God. Just give me his anxiety, any nervousness, any self-doubt — give that to me so he can go and do what he needs to do for himself.” And that’s what happened, because my stomach was doing backflips. So it was a lot of feels, but all good feels.

If you could go back and give advice to your 20-something selves, what would you say?

McDaniel: Don’t be fearful of love.

James: To open my heart. I love openly for the people that I love, but I didn’t always have that love for myself.

What was holding you back?

James: I felt like I wasn’t good enough. There were some confidence things I [struggled] with, not feeling like you’re worthy to be in certain situations or to have certain things. If I would have understood my worthiness and opened my heart to loving myself, I might have been ahead of the curve in my self-growth. I would have understood that it’s OK to be a mom and to raise my kids. That I will still have time to be a career woman, or for whatever I want to do. [I wish I’d known] it’s OK to be where I am right now and to love myself here in this moment, as opposed to thinking that my time was crunched.

McDaniel: For me, it was that love is something you cannot control. Savannah and I have a guy friend, and he said to us once, “I love being in love! It feels so good!” And I was like, “[I’m] the polar opposite.” Like, that feels so dangerous; someone else is going to control your feelings? I waited pretty late to allow myself to love. I self-sabotaged. And then when I finally fell, my husband passed.

You guys really destigmatize therapy by talking openly about it. No embarrassment. No shame. I imagine that wasn’t the way it was when you were growing up?

James: I didn’t even know what therapy was.

McDaniel: Growing up, I was like, “Therapy is for crazy white people.” So not only are we destigmatizing it for women, but also in a very vocal way, for a lot of Black men. People around us are so curious, but there’s fear.

I remember a really successful guy friend saying to me, “I don’t want to go to therapy because I feel like it will change me, and the way I am now is what’s made me successful.” And I’m like, “But you’re dysfunctional, so… there could be a better version of you.” Men think they’re supposed to look and act a certain type of way. I really hope, through our journey, people are starting to see it’s OK to not be fully OK all the time.

On your podcast, you mention you both went on a medicine journey. Is that like Ayahuasca?

James: No.

McDaniel: It is a mushroom journey for one day. We did it with one of our amazing Let It Break facilitators, Victoria Song. She wrote a book called Bending Realities. She does a lot of consultations for CEOs. It was beautiful. But you have to be ready, because you can’t control the emotions that come up.

Savannah, what was your experience like? Did you find it healing?

James: I did. Not necessarily healing — there are still things that need to be worked on post-journey — but clarifying, for sure. April gifted this experience to me for my birthday. I’m the type of person that when my birthday comes, I get kind of somber, like, “Well, I don’t know if I want to do something. I want to stay in the house.” And that journey was like cracking my heart open to be received. It was amazing. It’s unlike anything I’ve ever done.

And your families were supportive? You didn’t tell the kids…?

James: I didn’t talk about it with my kids. I spoke about it with LeBron, and it actually sparked some things in him to say, “Hmm, maybe that’s something I want to try.”

Let It Break is for women only, but do you envision some offshoot for men?

McDaniel: Dwayne Wade recently did a men’s retreat, so it’s interesting to see that starting to be an open space. I think that’s where we’re headed. As Savannah and I model what we are doing, the men around us see it. Once you can wrap your head around the idea that it’s OK to be vulnerable and you won’t be judged, I think we’ll be in a much better place in the world.

This interview was edited and condensed for clarity.